**EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION**

Welcome to the Shannon Bain digital podcast, where we talk all things, systems, mindset, and marketing. I’m your host, Shannon Bain, and I specialize in helping independent professionals and solopreneurs become in-demand service providers. Throughout this podcast, I’ll be sharing the exact strategies I have used to build my own digital agency from the ground up, as well as interviewing industry experts about all things online business and digital marketing. If you are a small business owner, sole trader, coach or consultant, then this podcast is for you. And I want you to leave with actionable tips that will help you systemize, start up, or scale up your dream business in order to create more space, freedom, and fulfillment in your life. So let’s get to it.

So today I’m talking to James Hancox, who is a digital nomad, affiliate marketer, and the owner of the Ultimate Growth Academy, that teaches people how to start an affiliate marketing business from scratch. James, thank you so much for being here.

Thank you for inviting me on Shannon. It’s great to be here.

I’m I’m super excited to dive into speaking more about your story and just sharing your knowledge around affiliate marketing. I’ve obviously watched your journey over the last few years and you’re just upleveling in your business and in life over that time, which has been amazing to see, but now you can share what you have learned with my audience. So I’m super appreciative of you sharing your time.

Awesome. Awesome. Yeah, absolutely. No problem at all.

So to just start off, I’d love for you just to share a little bit about yourself and what you do.

Yep. Okay. So I do affiliate marketing, I’ve been doing it for the last, just over two and a half years now. I started back in 2018 as a complete beginner, really had no idea about what I could do online, the potential of it, where you can go with it. I was clueless. I’d always been in the work for money space, I was in an estate agency before, so selling properties. My partner, Evie’s Australian, I’m from the UK. So we had to work out something that was going to work between the two. We tried a little bit in Australia, to try and get work over there, it was a nightmare.

We came back to UK, started working and then I then came across online opportunities and thought, this is going to be really good for our position, because we wanted to be able to be free and flexible. So yeah, I came across affiliate marketing, actually came across a few other things before that, which failed, didn’t really go to plan and then came across affiliate marketing and knew it was a really good path, so something I’d be able to get that freedom that we wanted.

Yeah. So we’ll definitely go into more about exactly what you do now with the Ultimate Growth Academy, but can you just give us a little bit of a recap on what your business actually does?

Yes, absolutely. So the business model of affiliate marketing is essentially finding a customer for a product, for another company and then in turn, basically making a commission. So I started off by being affiliate for multiple different companies, working my way up there, doing pretty well in it, to the point where we can live off it, travel, do what we wanted to do. And then I met a business partner in one of the communities that I was in, a guy named Matt, and we got together and we said, “How can we do this on our own? We’ve learned how to be an affiliate for a business, learned how to drive customers and make sales. So now let’s do the next part. Let’s actually be in control of it. Let’s help people get set up.” We were getting a lot of people asking about how to get results with affiliate marketing, and we started off by coaching people one-to-one and then we thought, why not turn this into a course, training program and help lots of people.

So rather than it costing thousands, we could do a much smaller, to the hundreds of dollars, rather than thousands, so more people could go through and more people could learn. So that was when we started off creating the Ultimate Growth Academy, which is just basically a training program to teach people how to be affiliates, from scratch.

So what were you doing before you actually started your affiliate marketing journey?

Yeah, so I was an estate agent, so I was selling properties and it was long hours. Evie was working in a bar, and so we weren’t seeing each other, we weren’t having that much time together. And I had this idea of creating my own estate agency on the side, having an online version. Didn’t go to plan, didn’t go well, because I wanted to have freedom and the only way I thought of doing that was being able to work for yourself, but then realizing that was actually just going to tie me down even more, it was going to take up more time. And that was then when I basically came across the idea of creating passive income online and it was a weird concept to have, the fact that I was so used to putting in time for money and then being able to do something which is more set up on automation for money. And it was a weird concept, but it was just getting your head around that, and then obviously getting your head out of being an employee, into being business owner, entrepreneur because it’s very different.

Such a big mindset shift to go through, right?

Huge, huge, yeah.

But definitely that passive income element as well, so many people think it’s just not possible. So did you have those doubts in the beginning as well?

I did. I think the biggest doubt was I could see it was possible because I saw people getting results, I saw people doing well with it. And I think the biggest doubt for me was myself [inaudible 00:05:57]. I was like, “Well, I’ve failed at things before, what’s the chance of that ever coming good now?” And you always had these limiting beliefs, so I think it’s more the mindset, than anything else.

Yeah, yeah, totally. And so what was the point that you realized that you were actually going to make this happen? Was it non-negotiable for you once you got started, you were never going to stop kind of thing? Or was there a point that you’re like, “This is actually working. I’m going to take this seriously now.”

The first six weeks, I think, were the hardest, because you’re learning a lot, I was going to training courses, learning the basics of affiliate marketing, building a basic website, mine looked terrible, building out advertising, it was all terrible at start. And then I made my first sale just under two months in, I was like, “Oh, cool.” Part of you then thinks it’s fluke, when you make your first one, as much as the first one’s gray, it feels like fluke. And then when you make your second and third, you’re like, “This is going to work.” And that was probably about three months in. But we needed to make it work for our situation, so it was like, “This has to work.” We didn’t have very much money, so it was back against the wall, let’s do this and not stop, not quit.

Had you thought about wanting to work online before? I know you were traveling a lot before you went back to the UK and you got back into the real estate agency stuff. When you were traveling, were you thinking that you’d love to work online and travel, or did you not really think about it?

I didn’t even think I could, that was the thing. At that time, I didn’t think I could. So it was just off the radar because I didn’t know, I thought I’d need skills, I thought I’d need lots of money to create a business, I didn’t know what I’d do. So because I had no idea, I didn’t even think we could. So the plan was always, work, save money, then travel. It was never work online. And I read the book, The Four Hour Work Week, and that was, okay, it’s really cool that you can do this, but I still thought I can’t do it. So that was how it was. So there was no element, until I started seeing people making money online in affiliate marketing, until I was like, “Actually, maybe I could have a chance at this. Maybe it is possible.”

Yeah. So you said that the first six weeks were the hardest, what were the kind of things that you were facing during that time that you had to overcome?

A lot of it was mindset. I’d never been very technical, like building websites and all of that, was never really something I was very good at. It never interested me either, I always thought it was just tons of coding. And I just remember six weeks in, I’d spent some money on training, hadn’t made a penny back. I was like, “Is this going to work or not?” And it was more mindset, I think I was just in the mindset of, the only way I knew was giving up time for money. That was the main thing. And it was just trying to get my head over that, to the point that you need to do that anymore, not in the world we’re living in.

How long into your journey did you really feel like you did make that shift? You said it was after the first three months or was it longer than that? Did you still doubt yourself in the first few months as to whether you could sustain this type of business?

Yes. Yeah. It wasn’t until month six or month seven, I think it was month seven into the whole affiliate marketing journey, where I actually make more money from that month than I had in my job, and that was when I was like, would have in my job, it was higher and I was like, “Wow, this is really working now.” And then I had another month very similar, it was higher again. I was like, “It’s amazing.” And then completely took my foot off the gas, I was like, “It’s all automated.” And it wasn’t at this point. And we ended up going on holidays, we went on about three holidays in the two month period and the results went down massively and that was a massive kick because they just dropped. But yeah, it was about six months, six, seven months in when I realized I can do it, but it wasn’t quite as automated as I thought it was a few months later and then I had to really pick up the game.

Right. Yeah. And so then how long did it take for you to actually quit your job? Was that the three month mark?

So I did that literally straight away, just to go all in. So I started off doing this real estate thing on the side. Because we were going backwards and forwards traveling, I was on a zero hour contract. So I was like, “Do you know what? I really want to make this work, really want to make it work.” So I actually did it too soon, personally, I should have kept the job going, it would have definitely helped us out mentally, knowing there’s money coming in. So I would never recommend anyone quitting your job before you got something going. But yeah, it was right at the start.

It was a risk that paid off.

Yeah, it paid off, but it was stressful. Because when no money’s coming in, you’re growing a business at the time, you’re putting money going out, you’re not taking any profit. But it was six months when I was like, “Right, I’ve actually now made more on that than I was making in the job.” And I was like, that was when it was working.

That was that milestone that you realized, this is it.

Yes.

Yeah. And so you mentioned a couple of times the word freedom, which always comes up, but was that the overarching goal or focus of building an online business? You wanted to travel, you wanted to have choice and yeah, was that freedom lifestyle business, something that you were always focused on?

Yeah, it was. I mean, we basically sat down, Evie and I and we were like, “Let’s work out a goal. What do we need to travel?” And we looked at Asia, we didn’t look at the rest of the world. We’re like, “Asia’s quite cheap. We can live there for $2,000 a month.” So when I started it, it was a year later. Yeah, is that your goal as well?

No, I said, you live well too.

Oh, well that’s it, you live well, yeah. So that was it, that was the goal. It wasn’t huge or anything like that. So it was freedom, I guess, ultimately what we’re after, but that was a small goal we wanted, that was realistic. Because then we knew we could go to Asia, we can live, didn’t plan on having any more than that, which is obviously quite sensible plan, but that was always what it was, it was quite a small goal to aim for. But yeah, I guess freedom was the main thing.

Yeah. And so besides traveling, how do you describe freedom within your life?

Great question. Really good question. I mean, you can just do what you want to do, whenever. I mean, if I want to-

For me, it’s having the choice to do what I want to do, when I want to do it.

When you want to do it, yeah, that’s it exactly. If you want to work in the morning, you can, if you want to work in an evening, you can, you can do what you want to do. If you want to have the day off, you can. I actually found out, my plan was to get affiliate marketing automated so I didn’t have to do much work, but actually, I probably work more now than I did in my old job, so it seems to be the way. But I think that when you enjoy something, you want to do it.

I think this picture of wanting to just have all this passive income come in and lay on a beach drinking cocktails, is just not … If you have a success mindset, you’ll never get to a point where you want to do that, you’ll always just want to keep working and keep growing. And I think if you have the drive and motivation to achieve that in the beginning, then yeah, when you get there, it’s not what you’ll want to do anyway. So you’ll always just be putting that money into a different business or doing something else or starting something new and you’ll always just be working because you love it.

That’s it. I mean, we live by the beach now, but I don’t spend that much time on it, to be honest, so it’s exactly that. When I do, I’m thinking about what I could be doing instead. So I need to get a bit more balanced.

I can totally relate to that because I’m exactly the same, same goal around starting a business to have more freedom and flexibility in my life, but then I’m working way more than I was working before, but I love it and I love my lifestyle a lot more than when I was working full time, even though there was more of that segregation between work starting and finishing.

I think that’s the important thing though, if you enjoy what you’re doing and that’s the key, it doesn’t matter if you’re doing more of it, as long as you’re enjoying it. It doesn’t matter really if you work in a job, if you enjoy it, if you absolutely love it, cool, that’s awesome. But if you don’t, then there are other things that you can do that you can enjoy. And I think that’s a good message there really.

Absolutely. So how is Spain treating you?

Well-

Love it?

Absolutely love it. We just got our visa declined, so we’re hoping to get that sorted. But no, overall, it’s really, really good. It’s a great lifestyle, there’s restaurants, sun, COVID’s put a bit of a downer on what we can do, but overall, it’s great.

How has COVID effected the business, I understand with the lifestyle being locked down for months, but more on the business side, has it been positive, has it hindered things? How’s it played out?

It’s been really positive. I think a lot of people, obviously our business is helping people get started with affiliate marketing, a lot of people are turning to the internet now, they realize that you can work online. And they’re not doing it necessarily for the freedom, they’re doing it because they need an income. So people understand it’s possible. So a lot of the things that I’ve been promoting, have all picked up, since literally March last year, business has literally doubled. So it’s gone really, really, really good in a business perspective because online is the way a lot of things are heading, a lot of things are going in digital world. And I think that’s one of the good, not good things about COVID I guess, because it’s not a good thing, but it’s opened people’s eyes to what’s possible.

Yeah, definitely. Are most of the people that come into your community, people that are looking just to start a business, I guess like your tagline says, from scratch, or do you have some people coming in … I’m just thinking about my audience, a lot of them are service-based business owners and I know that affiliate marketing could be a really good opportunity for them to potentially build up some type of passive income that actually compliments their current business. So do you work with businesses that are already established as well, or mainly just starting from scratch?

We do and don’t. So I mean the majority of our course is currently around helping beginners, but we do have an advanced program which helps business owners with advertising. So it is paid ads, bringing them into the business. We’re also launching an organic strategy at the moment, like a case study that people can follow and just see exactly what we do, and then they can follow it as they go. So it’s a yes or no, right in this moment, it’s not specialized on business owners coming in, but we are growing it in that direction as well. Because we understand that there’s two potential markets there that are going to want to get help. So the ad side of things, we’ve got advertising courses. So it’s like Facebook, YouTube adverts, all of those and teach people how to actually place ads and bring traffic in. In terms of affiliate marketing, we teach how to do things like blog posts to target specific products, and then you can then be an affiliate for them that way. So that’s one of the methods that you can go down, but there’s various, if that makes sense.

Yeah. Yeah. It definitely makes sense. Just something I wanted to put in there because I was thinking about that and I think there is an opportunity there for people to explore building up different streams of income, by utilizing affiliate marketing in that way.

Yeah. Yeah.

Then leading into talking a little bit deeper into what affiliate marketing actually is, how does it actually work?

Okay. So essentially, to break it down in the simplest form of it, you’re finding a customer for someone else’s business. And when you do that, because you found them that customer, it’s cost them nothing, they will pay you a commission. And normally on digital products, it can be quite high. It can be 30, 50, 75, sometimes even 100% of the cost. And you might think, why 100%? Well it’s because they probably have some sort of renewal or a monthly charge or something, so they may pay you up front, a big portion of it, knowing that then they’re going to take money on the following months. So you can earn some very good commission that way.

The purpose of it though, is essentially recommending a product to someone who needs it. That’s the main focus of it. There’s no point in selling something that’s not useful to someone. So example, within our course, we recommend a website program called Bluehost because it’s great, you can build your website on it, it integrates to WordPress, for example, and we recommend it to people to build their site. By doing that, we get a commission. And this is what we are essentially teaching, it’s giving the product, putting it in front of the person that’s looking for it. Or if someone’s looking for multiple different ones, it’s explaining why one’s better than the other. And that’s essentially how affiliate marketing works.

Yeah, I’m so glad that you mentioned that too, because I know some affiliate marketing can get a bad name, if people are sending people to products and services that they don’t actually use themselves, or they don’t actually have experience, in terms of the quality of the product too. Do you find that sometimes?

Yeah. I think people get affiliate marketing mixed up with network marketing. And I think that’s what can put, and I’m not saying network marketing is bad at all, but it can put a bad name on it. Because like you mentioned, a lot of the time people will get a product just because they know they can refer it and get commissions. And that’s not what this affiliate marketing is. There’s not levels to this, it is very black and white. You give them a customer, they pay your commission, end of. That’s the main thing, it’s not like you’re building up your teams and they’re recruiting more and more people, this is just simply giving someone a buying customer, done. And that is the kind of difference and people do get confused of it.

Yep. And so can you promote a range of different products as an affiliate, it’s unlimited in terms of what you could promote?

Absolutely, yeah. There’s hundreds of thousands of companies that have got affiliate programs. You can go to Amazon, you can go to Uber, you could literally get Uber drivers and they will give you a commission. You can go to booking.com and you could send someone the link to book a holiday. And if they book through your link, you’ll get a commission. And you can sign up to Amazon right now, for example, and if your friend’s about to buy something, can send them the link. It’s going to cost them no more, it’s going to cost no one anymore, difference is, Amazon are going to give you a commission that wasn’t there. So that’s why it’s quite powerful. But it’s literally anything, we’re flying drones, and we looked at DGI, they got a commission on them. You recommend someone to buy a DGI drone, you get paid. So it’s powerful stuff.

Yeah. So powerful. Yeah, you can definitely find so many things that align to a current brand as well, I think, that would definitely work.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.

Okay. So you were talking about how you spend your days working, you do long hours. So does the majority of your income still come from passive sales, if you’re comfortable talking about that?

Yeah. A lot of it does. So I’ve been promoting different marketing courses previously and built up a lot of customers there, on a residual basis. So something that I mentioned before, where companies can pay you big money for upfront, let’s say you refer someone, they then know that they’re going to have that customer recurring, or sometimes they will pay you a recurring commission. So if you get a customer who stays, for example, we’re promoting an email provider, so all businesses need to connect lists of emails. So when we recommend AWeber, which is one of the products that we recommend, someone signs up for free, initially, they start building their email list, AWeber then starts to pay us 30% every single month that they’re there. Now most of the time people won’t move email lists, so you’ve just got that customer and income coming in for life. So I’d say 90%, at the moment, of income is coming in from affiliate marketing and probably only about 10% is coming in from sales of the course. So we practice what we teach essentially.

Yeah. And so if you were to step away from the business and you take a month or even six months off, your income would definitely be sustained over that time at the level that it’s at now?

You’re going to get some people, with affiliate marketing, you’re going to get people that eventually drop off paying products. So if you do stop, it’s probably going to stay at that level for quite a while. But I stopped marketing one of the products, example, at the start of this year and I still continued to get an income very, very similar every single month from it, which is great. It will, however, start to go down as time goes on, if I don’t do anything else to it, but it lasts. The differences with leaving your job is, you don’t get paid anymore, whatever work you’ve put in, cuts off right there. You could have sales going through, especially an estate agency, no, you’re not getting those commissions. Whereas with this, I’m not promoting it anymore and you still keep getting paid and paid and paid. And it probably will, I’ll probably get income streams from a few of them for a few years from now, but it will go less and less.

But in the meantime, you build up something else and that’s what’s great about it because then you’re building up something else, whilst having income coming in. Which again, you can’t do when you got a job. So that’s what’s nice about it.

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. What type of person should do affiliate marketing then?

Yeah, I think to be honest, I mean, anyone can do it. I think that’s quite important to know, so anyone can do this, but you just got to be willing to put in the work. You got to understand that you’re going to have lots of failures before things go right. You’re going to have struggles, things are going to go wrong many, many times before things start going right. But then that’s no different than anything. I think that’s no different than if you built a e-commerce business, or probably same with you Shannon, you’ve probably noticed things went wrong many times before they started going right. And you’ve got to have the mindset of an entrepreneur, but anyone can do affiliate marketing, if they learn the right techniques.

Tell me a little bit more about the Ultimate Growth Academy. What exactly are you teaching in there? Obviously affiliate marketing is at the core, but I know there’s a lot of other things going on, you mentioned, paid ads, website, all these different things. So if someone joins, what kind of things do they get access to?

Yeah. So they get access to the initial course, which is going through firstly, what affiliate marketing is, in a lot more detail than we spoken about here, but it’s a module on exactly what it is, how it works and what the process is. Then we go through mindset because that is key, you can’t miss out on the mindset. Then we go into actually finding affiliate programs, choosing a niche, so you can start to get a bit of an idea, then take people through that process. If people have no idea what to promote, then we give them access to our affiliate program because we decided to create one in there as well, so people can use it because it’s important to just learn the skill, rather than focusing exactly on what you’re going to promote. It’s actually important to just keep going through and having something there to start earning some money from.

We then teach them how to build a website, buy a domain name, get it all set up, setting up something called a funnel. And basically what a funnel is, in short, is the journey of a customer. So it’s from seeing an advert, to entering the name and email, to finding out more about the potential product, to then purchasing. And virtually all businesses would have some kind of funnel, so we teach them how to create that. Set up the email list, and then from then, it’s two different routes of bringing in potential customers to their product. It’s either paid advertising, so they can basically put a paid ad in front of people and drive people through, or organic strategies like blogging, for example, which is a quite important one.

So they have access to that, which is the full process. Then we have advertising courses so they can learn each platform, which we actually include in the bundle, but we have them to be sold individually, if people outside go, “Right, I actually want to just learn Facebook ads. I don’t want to go through a course,” then they can just do that. And then we have a one-to-one coaching element as well, so if people want more in-depth support basically.

Yeah. Sounds incredible. You’ve done such a good job on it and it looks so good. And I know that you and Evie have launched a digital, not a digital, physical product as well.

That’s Evie, yeah. She’s done all the work there. She went through and created an Amazon business. So found products over in China, branded them, shipped them, put tons of work in, shipped them over to Amazon and yeah, just started kicking it all off literally a few weeks ago. She’ll be looking at doing it in Australia as well.

Yeah, yeah. And so one question I had for you, because I know that you’ve done the affiliate marketing, you started your own academy, I’m sure you’ve supported Evie in the e-commerce journey also. When you pull it back, do you feel like all of these skills that have allowed you to start these businesses, really come back to digital marketing, learning, those skills has then allowed you to go and do all these different things, or is there something that you attribute that to?

Essentially, yeah. I think I’ve learned a lot on the way just from making so many mistakes. I think that’s the important part, that’s how I’ve learned. I know initially when I used to make mistakes, I’d get really annoyed. Now I’m like, “Cool. I figured out what doesn’t work, now I know it does work.” And then again, that’s just mindset shifts. A lot of books and things have helped as well, podcasts, I’ve been listening. Although I’ve been in a podcast before this one, we used to listen to a lot of podcasts. So just hearing from other people, I think that’s always helped, hearing how other people have failed many times over, you’re like, “Okay, this is just the normal process of what you need to do.” But yeah, I think trial and error. We’ve had a lot of things still go wrong with the Ultimate Growth Academy at the start, as you do, and we’re just like, “Cool. Overcome it, overcome it.” And it’s just a different mindset to it.

Yeah. What advice would you give someone looking to get started with affiliate marketing or an online business in general?

I would always say, learn from someone who’s done it. Don’t do it on your own because anything, if you’re going to do it on your own, you will fail. I mean, I did a Amazon business before, literally before I even got started, I haven’t even mentioned this actually, but it was in between, where I went and tried to basically find these bags using the Amazon scanner app, sent them over to Amazon. It took months and I think I made about two pound profit, it was just a complete failure. And it was because I hadn’t learned, I didn’t understand how it all worked. So I literally put, I don’t know, 50, 60 hours in to make about two pounds. Whereas, if we learned how to do this properly, you would go, “Okay, I understand now.” So it’s putting money in and growing what you can do really.

Yeah. I think if you’re going to take something seriously, you’ve decided that’s what you want to do, you have to invest in yourself to make sure that that’s going to happen. And not only is it going to shorten the time horizon of getting you to the point that you want to get to, but also make it a lot more likely that you will actually get there as well. I totally agree with that. So what does 2021 look like for you, the rest of the year?

Well, it’s COVID dependent. We want to do a lot of traveling. We’re going to be growing up UGA. We got a lot of work, we need to, Ultimate Growth Academy, sorry to shorten it, we’re going to be growing that up. We’ve got a lot of work we need to put into there, more courses, more trainings, starting just to make everything more just flow. So a lot of times going to be spent on that. Learning investments at the moment, so different forms of trading. So I’m really enjoying that, that’s more of a hobby. And then yeah, traveling, I think that’s the plan. We’ve got to see where our visa goes, we’re planning to go back to Australia, end of the year. So that’s what it is. I mean, a lot of it is actually COVID dependent, any outside plans of business are just down to what happens in the world really.

Yes. It doesn’t really matter where you are, you can still-

No, no. We’re really grateful for that actually, just being able to go, if we don’t get our visa here, we’re like, “Okay, we’ve been looking to go to Greece for a few months.” So it’s just having that flexibility, knowing it doesn’t matter because we can just work, as long as we’ve got wifi, that’s the only requirement of a place.

Yeah. It’s instead of it being the end of the world, it’s more just a little bit of an inconvenience.

Yeah, I mean last year we really enjoyed it because we got to spend lots of time with family, working from home. But now, it’s not. I mean the only thing we need is wifi and sun, that’s our requirements that we have really. So not much more than that we need.

Well, yeah, you definitely have to make the trip to Australia. Fingers crossed that you can. And so where can people find you if they want to connect or check out the Ultimate Growth Academy?

We’ve got a website, ultimategrowthacademy.com. If they go to that website, then they’ll find out information. If they’ve got any questions, we’ve got support at the top, so you can just reach out, ask questions and it will be myself or Matt who would come back. So that’s probably the best way. I don’t really do huge amounts on social media, and I think that’s another thing that I think sometimes it holds people back, with affiliate marketing they think you need to have huge social media. I put up a post yesterday for the first time in about six months. I don’t use social media, I don’t drive people from it, it’s never been a big thing of mine.

Yeah. That was actually something I wanted to ask you about. Is that intentional or you just haven’t felt like you needed it?

Yeah, I haven’t really felt like I’ve needed it. I mean, there’s different methods of advertising. So you can go down social media routes and try and grow followers and all the rest of it and yeah, it’s a great one, it works, absolutely. It just wasn’t something I was that interested in. Rather than manually uploading lots and lots of pictures, lots and lots of content, I would rather create adverts which then just run on automation. So that was more the route I decided to go down because my goal was to get it more automated, not fame, that’s never really interested me. So you don’t need to be big on social media to do affiliate marketing

Yeah, followers don’t always convert into income, that’s for sure.

Not at all, not at all.

Awesome. Well, I will put the links to the Ultimate Growth Academy into the show notes so people can go and check you out. But thank you so much, James, for jumping on and sharing your journey and affiliate marketing and everything you’ve been doing in the Ultimate Growth Academy.

Thanks for having me on Shannon. It’s been great.